Really good, I think. Definitely a much later release than we expected but some of the things on my list for the Westhill patch moved into the Rift support patch. For example the new alpha system which allows much better looking trees and other objects with transparency, you can try out right now in Test Patch 0.6F9:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202
Eric has been continuing to work on Westhill and we want to get that into testing soon. I hope to release the new full version with Rift DK2 support next weekend, so that I can focus 100% on the additional support for the Westhill version.
So it looks like a few weeks. Strangely enough that is what we said when we first announced it. But on Eric's side, Westhill moved onto another level since that announcement and on my side, the DK2 support turned out to be a bigger deal than expected. All good though, apart from the later release.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202
Eric has been continuing to work on Westhill and we want to get that into testing soon. I hope to release the new full version with Rift DK2 support next weekend, so that I can focus 100% on the additional support for the Westhill version.
So it looks like a few weeks. Strangely enough that is what we said when we first announced it. But on Eric's side, Westhill moved onto another level since that announcement and on my side, the DK2 support turned out to be a bigger deal than expected. All good though, apart from the later release.
Thank you, I confirm this bug at Aston. In fact I noticed that last night but didn't want to influence anyone's observations by mentioning it. It is reassuring that the only bug reported, is the one I already knew about!
Please do let us know if you see any other significant alpha or sorting issues related to the new alpha system.
Eric and I have also seen some small sorting issues where a branch of a tree can sort of pop in front of another nearby tree as you move to a different position, because we now use alpha instead of alpha test (and often, on trees, a two pass combination of both, known as Tree Edge Alpha or TEA). Nothing that really bothered us too much though, and is less bad than the actual distant object / track popup issues that have always been there due to failings in the "visible objects from current location" system which I am working on for the Westhill update.
So at the moment, the only known issue with this patch is that bug at Aston.
Money won't get things done in our case. Eric and I have worked in game companies before and we prefer our way of doing things. We work from home, as inspiration takes us. It's not about deadlines, running a company, keeping the income high, paying the staff, interviewing people, firing lazy people and all those nasty things that come in. We aren't interested in that, at all. What happens if you go down that route is you start looking at what can make the most money, as you have to, to pay all the staff. We don't subscribe to this twisted capitalist view that the purpose of life is to make the most money possible. We just want to work from home, at our own pace, getting all the things done that we want to do. It takes longer than everyone hopes, but we keep on going. LFS isn't here today and gone tomorrow like most games.
EDIT: We are interested in the idea of open (or limited release) editors, with moderated content, in some way, paid or unpaid but it's not going to happen with an S2 license. We need to get to the S3 license and updated tyre physics, some sort of stable level before opening up things to the S3 licensed users. It's not a finished product and it is not ready for community development support. That is a big subject and this isn't really the place to discuss it, as it has nothing to do with this test patch.
EDIT: We are interested in the idea of open (or limited release) editors, with moderated content, in some way, paid or unpaid but it's not going to happen with an S2 license. We need to get to the S3 license and updated tyre physics, some sort of stable level before opening up things to the S3 licensed users. It's not a finished product and it is not ready for community development support. That is a big subject and this isn't really the place to discuss it, as it has nothing to do with this test patch.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Thread open again.
One month since the start of this thread, how time flies!
It's all going well, not only with the Oculus support but also I've been doing some slight graphical improvements and helping Eric with some editor updates (though he needs more).
I'm getting to the end of the first stage of Oculus Rift DK2 support, aiming for a full version at the end of the week. Eric has continued filling the gaps and improving and adding features around the Westhill track.
I do still have to work full time, with Eric, on support for the highly detailed track so there are still a few weeks to go.
Right now you might like to try Test Patch F7. There are some slight graphical improvements, mainly related to the mipmaps of some alpha test textures, which, on some tracks, used to go very dark on the edges in the distance. That small fix obviously isn't going to make a huge difference, but more interestingly there is a new texture loading system that resaves the file if it wasn't saved in the most optimal format. As a result, track load times are much faster after the first load. In the case of custom texture packs, the load time decrease can be surprising! And it even speeds up the default supplied textures. Thanks to Daniel CRO for demonstrating this speedup with his external test program.
https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=86202
One month since the start of this thread, how time flies!
It's all going well, not only with the Oculus support but also I've been doing some slight graphical improvements and helping Eric with some editor updates (though he needs more).
I'm getting to the end of the first stage of Oculus Rift DK2 support, aiming for a full version at the end of the week. Eric has continued filling the gaps and improving and adding features around the Westhill track.
I do still have to work full time, with Eric, on support for the highly detailed track so there are still a few weeks to go.
Right now you might like to try Test Patch F7. There are some slight graphical improvements, mainly related to the mipmaps of some alpha test textures, which, on some tracks, used to go very dark on the edges in the distance. That small fix obviously isn't going to make a huge difference, but more interestingly there is a new texture loading system that resaves the file if it wasn't saved in the most optimal format. As a result, track load times are much faster after the first load. In the case of custom texture packs, the load time decrease can be surprising! And it even speeds up the default supplied textures. Thanks to Daniel CRO for demonstrating this speedup with his external test program.
https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=86202
Guys, I explained before... search my posts. Yes the VR gives some kind of delay BUT that is extremely important for us as it has made us a few pounds and increased the knowledge of LFS to people who have never heard of it. That's what you want, isn't it? People to race with?
BUT ALSO it has given Eric more of a chance to work on the track in a very good way. I really thought I explained this already. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. Be patient.
BUT ALSO it has given Eric more of a chance to work on the track in a very good way. I really thought I explained this already. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. Be patient.
To be entirely honest with you, this comment makes me quite angry, when Eric and I are working our butts off trying to get this free update to you.
Just be patient and wait, if you want an update. I keep coming here and telling you what's up. I feel like shutting up, avoiding the thread and not speaking here any more.
Oh you mean, like, "This is totally screwed, and I know why, let's get it tested, divide the community and ruin online racing"...
Why? Test patches are to get things tested, not to get fatally flawed things out there and destroy online racing. The tyre physics is far from complete.
It's just absolutely ridiculous. It would be like Eric releasing a Westhill test when he had done a rough version of half the track and no scenery, to get it tested. Why would he?
Why? Test patches are to get things tested, not to get fatally flawed things out there and destroy online racing. The tyre physics is far from complete.
It's just absolutely ridiculous. It would be like Eric releasing a Westhill test when he had done a rough version of half the track and no scenery, to get it tested. Why would he?
While I've been developing Rift support, Eric has been continuing making the Westhill scenery even better than was ever planned to be. And I can tell you that is great fun to drive around on!
The Rift DK2 support, although unfinished, is spreading the word about LFS more than any other thing in recent times. We are also selling more licenses and have new racers joining the community...
If someone wants to get sarcastic about that, they can do so and I will just laugh at them.
The Rift DK2 support, although unfinished, is spreading the word about LFS more than any other thing in recent times. We are also selling more licenses and have new racers joining the community...
If someone wants to get sarcastic about that, they can do so and I will just laugh at them.
No, it's much too subtle. What Eric is talking about is something you can feel, but not see.
In my words, just as I've said before, the new tyres feel better to drive. I think it's because of the physical model used to combined the lateral and longitudinal forces.
It's not something you can see. There are terrible flaws with the new tyre system, relating to pressure, temperature, load sensitivity. It's unfinished work. It's something I want to get finished. I can't make any more comments on the subject at this time.
In my words, just as I've said before, the new tyres feel better to drive. I think it's because of the physical model used to combined the lateral and longitudinal forces.
It's not something you can see. There are terrible flaws with the new tyre system, relating to pressure, temperature, load sensitivity. It's unfinished work. It's something I want to get finished. I can't make any more comments on the subject at this time.
It's just a guess.
Based on the facts that I know him quite well after all these years, and that he started building that unfinished track out the back of South City, and that he has taken quite an interest recently in the off track areas at Westhill... that's why I feel quite sure that Eric would like to update South City at some point.
But the priority isn't the highest on that at the moment...
It would be nice to update South City at some point. With my anaglyph glasses on I was looking around the other day, enjoying the sense of scale and, apart from that unfinished road you are talking about, there are various back streets that could be linked up to make a nice open config. I'm sure Eric would enjoy doing that at some point. I think what is more important now is to get a couple of new tracks out that you will need an S3 license to use, because you need more tracks and we could do with the cash!
Progress with the Westhill version
Hello Racers.
Four weeks since our announcement about the Westhill update that is coming soon, I thought it would be good to give you a short progress report.
Things are going well but, as expected, taking longer than expected.
On my side, as some of you know from other threads, I made a quick 3D mode for red-cyan anaglyph glasses, the kind that can be bought very cheaply, e.g. 4 pairs for £1. Interestingly, it needed a simple pixel shader to make it work so finally I learned to program pixel shaders, which you can do in the HLSL shader language in DirectX 9 (which LFS uses since 0.6F).
Pixel shaders open up a world of graphical possibilities, so it's a good thing to be able to do, and one thing I had to do, for the Westhill patch, was improve the "optimiser" which pre-computes which objects are visible from your position on the track path (except in open configurations, which is why the frame rate is lower on them). This used to be done in a rudimentary software render, but by using pixel shaders I can use the DX9 render which makes the optimiser work better.
With my new found excitement about these shaders, I knew the render of the cars could be done more efficiently. In the current public version, each shiny surface of the car is rendered in 3 passes, using 3 vertex shaders. One for the direct light (affected by the lightmap) one for the ambient light and another for the environment map that makes the cars shiny. I have now made a single vertex shader and pixel shader that render every polygon only once instead of 3 times and this saves a lot of frame rate. I expect to release this in an intermediate test patch next week, along with the anaglyph view mode, and some other updates, listed at the bottom of this post.
On Eric's side, he has been completing the areas between the parts of the track and the access roads. The scenery is at a new level of detail compared with our other tracks. This is partly for the fun of driving in those places in the open configs, and also for a more realistic look and feel of the place as you drive around on the track where you are supposed to be!
It's looking very nice. Eric still has some holes to fill and I still have a list of updates, for editor functions that will help Eric and a few minor things that can go in this incompatible patch. The physics will still be compatible so we don't have to delete all the hotlaps (except Westhill) but the multiplayer will be incompatible.
So, still a few weeks before the Westhill version goes into public testing, but it's all going well. Thanks for your patience and we look forward to releasing it!
Changes from 0.6F to Test Patch 0.6F2
(intermediate, compatible update before Westhill version)
[EDIT : (as already stated above...) I expect to release this next week]
Two new 3D formats in TV / monitor /projector mode :
- red-cyan anaglyph
cheap red-cyan glasses are required
more expensive glasses can correct red (left) eye focus
colour perception is reduced and different in each eye
do not use this mode for a long time
- cross-eyed view
no equipment needed
the 3D world appears small
right eye looks at left image / left eye looks at right image
this is difficult for some people (with normal vision)
stop immediately if you feel any discomfort
do not use this mode for a long time
Skin downloading when watching a replay :
If a car or helmet skin in a replay is not available at LFS World
when you start the replay (with low or high res skins selected)
but you already have the skin in the other resolution then that
skin in the other resolution will be used instead of a plain car
Fixes :
Crash when using a wheel button assigned to /rift toggle command
Crash when pressing e.g. F8 when /press F8 was assigned to F8 key
Graphics :
New car shaders giving higher frame rate when many cars on screen
FIX : Car lighting momentarily vertical as car entered a shadow
Four weeks since our announcement about the Westhill update that is coming soon, I thought it would be good to give you a short progress report.
Things are going well but, as expected, taking longer than expected.
On my side, as some of you know from other threads, I made a quick 3D mode for red-cyan anaglyph glasses, the kind that can be bought very cheaply, e.g. 4 pairs for £1. Interestingly, it needed a simple pixel shader to make it work so finally I learned to program pixel shaders, which you can do in the HLSL shader language in DirectX 9 (which LFS uses since 0.6F).
Pixel shaders open up a world of graphical possibilities, so it's a good thing to be able to do, and one thing I had to do, for the Westhill patch, was improve the "optimiser" which pre-computes which objects are visible from your position on the track path (except in open configurations, which is why the frame rate is lower on them). This used to be done in a rudimentary software render, but by using pixel shaders I can use the DX9 render which makes the optimiser work better.
With my new found excitement about these shaders, I knew the render of the cars could be done more efficiently. In the current public version, each shiny surface of the car is rendered in 3 passes, using 3 vertex shaders. One for the direct light (affected by the lightmap) one for the ambient light and another for the environment map that makes the cars shiny. I have now made a single vertex shader and pixel shader that render every polygon only once instead of 3 times and this saves a lot of frame rate. I expect to release this in an intermediate test patch next week, along with the anaglyph view mode, and some other updates, listed at the bottom of this post.
On Eric's side, he has been completing the areas between the parts of the track and the access roads. The scenery is at a new level of detail compared with our other tracks. This is partly for the fun of driving in those places in the open configs, and also for a more realistic look and feel of the place as you drive around on the track where you are supposed to be!
It's looking very nice. Eric still has some holes to fill and I still have a list of updates, for editor functions that will help Eric and a few minor things that can go in this incompatible patch. The physics will still be compatible so we don't have to delete all the hotlaps (except Westhill) but the multiplayer will be incompatible.
So, still a few weeks before the Westhill version goes into public testing, but it's all going well. Thanks for your patience and we look forward to releasing it!
Changes from 0.6F to Test Patch 0.6F2
(intermediate, compatible update before Westhill version)
[EDIT : (as already stated above...) I expect to release this next week]
Two new 3D formats in TV / monitor /projector mode :
- red-cyan anaglyph
cheap red-cyan glasses are required
more expensive glasses can correct red (left) eye focus
colour perception is reduced and different in each eye
do not use this mode for a long time
- cross-eyed view
no equipment needed
the 3D world appears small
right eye looks at left image / left eye looks at right image
this is difficult for some people (with normal vision)
stop immediately if you feel any discomfort
do not use this mode for a long time
Skin downloading when watching a replay :
If a car or helmet skin in a replay is not available at LFS World
when you start the replay (with low or high res skins selected)
but you already have the skin in the other resolution then that
skin in the other resolution will be used instead of a plain car
Fixes :
Crash when using a wheel button assigned to /rift toggle command
Crash when pressing e.g. F8 when /press F8 was assigned to F8 key
Graphics :
New car shaders giving higher frame rate when many cars on screen
FIX : Car lighting momentarily vertical as car entered a shadow
Last edited by Scawen, .
Why do you need to know what Eric thinks about multithreading? I don't see it as some controversial thing which would polarize opinions...
It's pretty obvious what Eric would think. He would be happy any time I can give the graphics or physics systems more power. He would approve if I spent some time on it, but obviously not when some other things are more important, like supporting him with this Westhill update, as I am doing at the moment (reason for the delay on the anaglyph 3D).
It's pretty obvious what Eric would think. He would be happy any time I can give the graphics or physics systems more power. He would approve if I spent some time on it, but obviously not when some other things are more important, like supporting him with this Westhill update, as I am doing at the moment (reason for the delay on the anaglyph 3D).
New Version 0.6F and Progress Report
Dear LFS Racers,
Today we release an new update of Live for Speed with 3D support and announce another version that is coming soon with a much improved Westhill track.
Version 0.6F:
Available today and well tested by forum visitors, this new update supports 3D devices including TVs, projectors, headsets and the Oculus Rift. While developing it, we also moved onto DirectX 9 which allows for better graphical effects in future while still allowing LFS to run on older versions of Windows and on Linux (using the Wine compatibility software). This version remains fully compatible with 0.6E with many improvements and fixes.
Read more about the patch and how to get it on the 0.6F information page.
Westhill Update:
Available soon... as the development for S3 has been taking some time, we thought it would be good to update something for our existing license holders. The best thing to update was the Westhill track which was always sparse and underdeveloped. The International configuration has been improved in many places, particularly in the twisty sequence of bends in the far corner which is now more challenging. There is a new National configuration, bearing off from the International track after the first right and left bends, involving some interesting gradient changes and technical bends. The scenery has been developed to a higher level of detail and you can drive around the access roads in the open configurations.
You can see images of the new track on our screenshots page.
The configurations are complete and good to drive. At this point Eric is still finishing some buildings and filling some holes in the scenery. Scawen is making some improvements and optimisations to deal with the higher level of detail. We expect to release this version for testing in a few weeks, but remember that sometimes interesting things can come up that make things take a little longer than planned.
Further Progress:
After the Westhill update, Eric will continue with the S3 tracks he has been working on. Scawen will continue with the new tyre model. The new tyres currently feel good to drive but some work needs to be done on heat, pressure, friction, tyre load sensitivity and wear which are all closely linked.
- LFS Developers
Today we release an new update of Live for Speed with 3D support and announce another version that is coming soon with a much improved Westhill track.
Version 0.6F:
Available today and well tested by forum visitors, this new update supports 3D devices including TVs, projectors, headsets and the Oculus Rift. While developing it, we also moved onto DirectX 9 which allows for better graphical effects in future while still allowing LFS to run on older versions of Windows and on Linux (using the Wine compatibility software). This version remains fully compatible with 0.6E with many improvements and fixes.
Read more about the patch and how to get it on the 0.6F information page.
Westhill Update:
Available soon... as the development for S3 has been taking some time, we thought it would be good to update something for our existing license holders. The best thing to update was the Westhill track which was always sparse and underdeveloped. The International configuration has been improved in many places, particularly in the twisty sequence of bends in the far corner which is now more challenging. There is a new National configuration, bearing off from the International track after the first right and left bends, involving some interesting gradient changes and technical bends. The scenery has been developed to a higher level of detail and you can drive around the access roads in the open configurations.
You can see images of the new track on our screenshots page.
The configurations are complete and good to drive. At this point Eric is still finishing some buildings and filling some holes in the scenery. Scawen is making some improvements and optimisations to deal with the higher level of detail. We expect to release this version for testing in a few weeks, but remember that sometimes interesting things can come up that make things take a little longer than planned.
Further Progress:
After the Westhill update, Eric will continue with the S3 tracks he has been working on. Scawen will continue with the new tyre model. The new tyres currently feel good to drive but some work needs to be done on heat, pressure, friction, tyre load sensitivity and wear which are all closely linked.
- LFS Developers
By the way, do you start to see why Eric doesn't like posting here? These crazy conversations you end up having with people who can write but can't read. They are quite mentally tiring because you have to say the same thing dozens of times and still it is ignored and the conversation goes round and round like a wheel of deja vu. It seems like people have nothing to do so they play a fun game "wind up the developer who likes talking to the community". "All we have to do is keep repeating Microsoft marketing at him, regardless of his reply, and soon he'll become agitated which is great fun". That's probably not the case but it starts to look that way, when people talk to you and don't read the reply.
After a while it seems like there isn't any point saying anything because what you say is ignored.
OK, I know what will happen now. Someone will tell me that DX9 is only used by dinosaurs, XP is the Model T Ford of operating systems, it's time to move on to the latest and greatest thing.
But I've already explained why it isn't possible or desirable or necessary to do so.
https://www.lfsforum.net/showt ... php?p=1857760#post1857760
After a while it seems like there isn't any point saying anything because what you say is ignored.
OK, I know what will happen now. Someone will tell me that DX9 is only used by dinosaurs, XP is the Model T Ford of operating systems, it's time to move on to the latest and greatest thing.
But I've already explained why it isn't possible or desirable or necessary to do so.
https://www.lfsforum.net/showt ... php?p=1857760#post1857760
Thanks guys, I know a lot of people really do understand and accept our way of doing things.
I think you misunderstood what I said a little bit, because I didn't say that I don't care about the community. Just that I can't worry about the dip in progress. After a decade of really hard work (12 to 15 hour days used to be the normal thing for me) it would have been great if we could just reel off another decade just the same. But, with the benefit of hindsight, neither Eric nor I were capable of continuing like that.
I am trying to make the point that the unplanned dip, which came about for whatever reason, could be beneficial in the long run if we can work in a sustainable way. For example, we are still alive which is a good start and I'm also a real life racer now who considers his tyres and races on tracks that vary a lot due to the weather!
I think you misunderstood what I said a little bit, because I didn't say that I don't care about the community. Just that I can't worry about the dip in progress. After a decade of really hard work (12 to 15 hour days used to be the normal thing for me) it would have been great if we could just reel off another decade just the same. But, with the benefit of hindsight, neither Eric nor I were capable of continuing like that.
I am trying to make the point that the unplanned dip, which came about for whatever reason, could be beneficial in the long run if we can work in a sustainable way. For example, we are still alive which is a good start and I'm also a real life racer now who considers his tyres and races on tracks that vary a lot due to the weather!
Hello everyone!
The developers are all alive and working on LFS.
Eric has been working on new tracks. He slowed up a bit during some of the great English summer which we don't get very often. I have enjoyed test driving on two of his new tracks which look great and I look forward to the time when they can be released.
I am still working on the tyre physics, though I haven't really made serious progress this year. I also enjoyed the summer, did a lot of cycling and running too. It's a better hobby than smoking like I used to, and I really enjoy it. But the good news is it won't pay the bills!
LFS income has gradually gone down as it always does between updates. That that has increased the urgency of finishing the tyre physics. So I plan to get down to it, make the appropriate approximations and sort out a good physically based system, with enough assumptions to make it workable, accepting that total realism is an unachievable goal.
I just got a bit excited about stereoscopic 3d support, which some people will like because they'll be able to see LFS in 3d on a 3d TV, if their TV supports "side-by-side" or "top and bottom" mode. Also headsets should be supported if they accept one of those output modes. The old headsets that require specific support and sequential output will not be supported. For example a Sony HMZ works but a Vuzix VR920 does not. A more recent Vuzix should work but the field of view is not really good enough to give you peripheral vision. I'm not sure how much it will benefit the Oculus Rift at the moment. I think that depends on a pixel shader to provide the proper distortion, which I think is not available in D3D8. Anyway, one of the output options will be non-squashed (full) side-by-side 3D, which may possibly make it easier to use the Oculus Rift. Anyway it is a step in that direction. It does appear that the current Oculus Rift's resolution is too low for a racing simulator at the moment. Anyway I should be able to post a 3d test patch in a few days, I'm guessing early next week. Some people will enjoy that, though I realise most people, like me, don't have 3d equipment.
Victor is still with us, although he has indeed got another job, which looks like a really good one, putting his excellent skills to more use. I'm pleased for him about that, as his job here wasn't often really full time, although he is an absolutely vital member of our team. He needed a job as well because our profit share isn't one third each and depends on our actual contributions to the project. Victor started later and never has so much work, so for that reason only, his profit share was a bit of a tight squeeze to live on, specially with the gradual reduction in profits while we are waiting for a serious update.
People ask why I don't come here more often with progress reports. But there hasn't been enough progress to give a report. And it's not appealing to come here and say that. Every month I've thought I would be making more progress, and would have some good progress to report the following month. Hope you see what I mean...
Anyway, we do have to pay the bills and I'm very interested to get the better feeling tyre model out there for everyone to enjoy. You've heard it all before so I don't expect great enthusiasm. It will take a while yet, but hopefully not too long.
The developers are all alive and working on LFS.
Eric has been working on new tracks. He slowed up a bit during some of the great English summer which we don't get very often. I have enjoyed test driving on two of his new tracks which look great and I look forward to the time when they can be released.
I am still working on the tyre physics, though I haven't really made serious progress this year. I also enjoyed the summer, did a lot of cycling and running too. It's a better hobby than smoking like I used to, and I really enjoy it. But the good news is it won't pay the bills!
LFS income has gradually gone down as it always does between updates. That that has increased the urgency of finishing the tyre physics. So I plan to get down to it, make the appropriate approximations and sort out a good physically based system, with enough assumptions to make it workable, accepting that total realism is an unachievable goal.
I just got a bit excited about stereoscopic 3d support, which some people will like because they'll be able to see LFS in 3d on a 3d TV, if their TV supports "side-by-side" or "top and bottom" mode. Also headsets should be supported if they accept one of those output modes. The old headsets that require specific support and sequential output will not be supported. For example a Sony HMZ works but a Vuzix VR920 does not. A more recent Vuzix should work but the field of view is not really good enough to give you peripheral vision. I'm not sure how much it will benefit the Oculus Rift at the moment. I think that depends on a pixel shader to provide the proper distortion, which I think is not available in D3D8. Anyway, one of the output options will be non-squashed (full) side-by-side 3D, which may possibly make it easier to use the Oculus Rift. Anyway it is a step in that direction. It does appear that the current Oculus Rift's resolution is too low for a racing simulator at the moment. Anyway I should be able to post a 3d test patch in a few days, I'm guessing early next week. Some people will enjoy that, though I realise most people, like me, don't have 3d equipment.
Victor is still with us, although he has indeed got another job, which looks like a really good one, putting his excellent skills to more use. I'm pleased for him about that, as his job here wasn't often really full time, although he is an absolutely vital member of our team. He needed a job as well because our profit share isn't one third each and depends on our actual contributions to the project. Victor started later and never has so much work, so for that reason only, his profit share was a bit of a tight squeeze to live on, specially with the gradual reduction in profits while we are waiting for a serious update.
People ask why I don't come here more often with progress reports. But there hasn't been enough progress to give a report. And it's not appealing to come here and say that. Every month I've thought I would be making more progress, and would have some good progress to report the following month. Hope you see what I mean...
Anyway, we do have to pay the bills and I'm very interested to get the better feeling tyre model out there for everyone to enjoy. You've heard it all before so I don't expect great enthusiasm. It will take a while yet, but hopefully not too long.
This is a typically outrageous and ridiculous interpretation of something I said which has an obvious meaning.
It's absolutely obvious what "unsubscribe" means, to click the "unsubscribe" option so that I don't receive email notifications of new posts on this thread. That would be, of course, to save me wasting so many minutes of the one life that I have, reading posts like yours and edge3147's.
If I was saying that I have decided to throw away my career on a whim, that suddenly developing a program that I care greatly about means nothing to me any more because a couple of people on the internet made a couple of irritating posts, then I'd say something about it, wouldn't I? You really have a bizarre view of the world. YOU are the kind of person that makes Eric avoid posting here.
You complain about our communication. Why not learn to read?
[ After posting this, I'll unsubscribe again - no that doesn't mean I'm giving up my career and going to look for a job ]
Last edited by Scawen, .
Reason : fixed typo
Well, I haven't seen what Lynce did with Fern Bay, though I am sure it is very good.
But I am not going to get drawn into off topic conversations that have nothing to do with the problem of the day or the points in my previous post.
You are just causing spam that obscures what I said a few posts above.
So what will happen? Someone else will come and ask me the same thing.
You see? This is what my post was trying to explain. Now do you see why Eric doesn't post here?
But I am not going to get drawn into off topic conversations that have nothing to do with the problem of the day or the points in my previous post.
You are just causing spam that obscures what I said a few posts above.
So what will happen? Someone else will come and ask me the same thing.
You see? This is what my post was trying to explain. Now do you see why Eric doesn't post here?
I have explained this many times in the past. I'm reluctant to say it again, because I expect that I am just opening the floodgates for a barrage of questions and various detailed explanations of why our strategy is absolutely ridiculous, why we are being dishonest and so on.
But here goes... and unfortunately this is once again, a historical text that I have said over and over again. We planned to release the Scirocco then soon after, Rockingham (the start of S3 content). But we discovered that it was impossible to make the car handle realistically or safely while using realistic settings. So I thought, let's take a few weeks and sort out this tyre model. That took me on a long journey of development. Never did I think, what a waste of time this has been, let's go back to the old flawed model and start releasing the things which we haven't released because of the flaws in the tyre model. No, we still want to sort out the tyre model before releasing anything.
This is absolutely not that Victor and I are wishing Eric would release new content and he is refusing to do so. That is one of the false imaginings from certain people in the community. We want to sort out the tyres then release the VW and then Rockingham and other things as planned.
As I've said, over and over and over again, Eric is working on new content. You just will not believe it. Eric doesn't post here because he doesn't like the way some people take any words we say, twist them round to mean something completely different then hold them against us. And because any minor slip up in our text can lead to years of seemingly personal attacks. I'm reluctant to make this reply, as I said, this normally ends up drawing me into ridiculous discussions until I just have to unsubscribe or close the thread. So I can understand his reluctance to post here. It would be nice if he did, but he doesn't want to.
Right, that is the same Anakin who did this in 0.6B. He claims to be helping LFS development, and said he achieved his aim by getting me back to work (actually taking me off the tyre physics and onto hacker protection - though I agree there was useful development of the multiplayer code). But he doesn't want to help by letting us know how he did this. If he would send us an email of explanation, that would help LFS development, because I would be able to get back to the tyre physics and some editor tools Eric has asked me for. But his current approach is not helping to advance the speed of LFS development.
Anyway, I would like to see a log produced from the host at the time he joined it, hopefully with the replay also recorded on the host.
Anyway, I would like to see a log produced from the host at the time he joined it, hopefully with the replay also recorded on the host.
On topic :
I hope to release a dedicated host test update either today or tomorrow, that should at least prevent the user being connected with a user name you cannot type, or a user name that does not match the user id.
Off topic :
Although development has been slow for some time, we are still motivated on LFS, which we do regard as a long term thing. I must admit this year both Eric and I have had some slow months and some months in which we didn't do much LFS at all.
In both our cases that has been partly for external reasons which will not have a long term negative effect, and also partly a need for a slight break after several years of hard work.
In my case I have got into some sport (cross country running and cycling) which has obvious benefits I don't need to explain, after two decades without. That occupied my mind a lot (in a good way) and has been great for me and my family, but not great in an immediate sense for LFS's development this summer. The journey of tyre physics development has been a tough one, round and round, forwards and backwards these couple of years. I feel this summer break has helped me mentally. I've got some answers and plan to get that tyre stuff sorted out so we can get back to the fun stuff and a faster development rate in the S3 period.
I hope to release a dedicated host test update either today or tomorrow, that should at least prevent the user being connected with a user name you cannot type, or a user name that does not match the user id.
Off topic :
Although development has been slow for some time, we are still motivated on LFS, which we do regard as a long term thing. I must admit this year both Eric and I have had some slow months and some months in which we didn't do much LFS at all.
In both our cases that has been partly for external reasons which will not have a long term negative effect, and also partly a need for a slight break after several years of hard work.
In my case I have got into some sport (cross country running and cycling) which has obvious benefits I don't need to explain, after two decades without. That occupied my mind a lot (in a good way) and has been great for me and my family, but not great in an immediate sense for LFS's development this summer. The journey of tyre physics development has been a tough one, round and round, forwards and backwards these couple of years. I feel this summer break has helped me mentally. I've got some answers and plan to get that tyre stuff sorted out so we can get back to the fun stuff and a faster development rate in the S3 period.
Progress Report December 2011
A short progress report posted on www.lfs.net :
Dear LFS Racers,
We hope you had a good year in 2011. In June we released 0.6B, the best version of LFS so far. Since then we have been continuing to work towards the new tyre model and the S3 upgrade which we plan to release after the physics update.
Scawen has been further developing the virtual tyre test rig, a detailed model of a tyre's structure, to work out various values for the in-game tyre model. For example, what is the contact patch length, width and pressure for a given vertical deflection and how does the tyre's shape change with forces, torques and camber. These depend on the dimensions and structure of a tyre. By making the in-game tyres behave in a similar way, the driving experience will be as realistic as possible.
In the left part of the image, the yellow lines show the radial cords of the carcass. The orange and green lines show the steel belts and the cap ply. The right side of the image illustrates the carcass thickness which gives some rigidity even without air pressure.
Eric has been working on the S3 content. After the physics update and the VW Scirocco are released as a free update for all S1 and S2 license holders, we will work towards the S3 update which will provide more tracks and cars to S3 license holders. As usual for an upgrade, the cost of your existing license will be deducted from the full price.
We wish you a happy 2012, and we'll release the updates as soon as we can!
- LFS Developers
Dear LFS Racers,
We hope you had a good year in 2011. In June we released 0.6B, the best version of LFS so far. Since then we have been continuing to work towards the new tyre model and the S3 upgrade which we plan to release after the physics update.
Scawen has been further developing the virtual tyre test rig, a detailed model of a tyre's structure, to work out various values for the in-game tyre model. For example, what is the contact patch length, width and pressure for a given vertical deflection and how does the tyre's shape change with forces, torques and camber. These depend on the dimensions and structure of a tyre. By making the in-game tyres behave in a similar way, the driving experience will be as realistic as possible.
In the left part of the image, the yellow lines show the radial cords of the carcass. The orange and green lines show the steel belts and the cap ply. The right side of the image illustrates the carcass thickness which gives some rigidity even without air pressure.
Eric has been working on the S3 content. After the physics update and the VW Scirocco are released as a free update for all S1 and S2 license holders, we will work towards the S3 update which will provide more tracks and cars to S3 license holders. As usual for an upgrade, the cost of your existing license will be deducted from the full price.
We wish you a happy 2012, and we'll release the updates as soon as we can!
- LFS Developers
That sign is not linked into LFS speed limits. I just added it so that hosters, through InSim programs, could implement a 50 km/h speed limit if they wanted to. I just copied Eric's 80 km/h sign from Blackwood and changed the texture on the front.
Well the chalk arrows have not changed, forward always meant forward (same direction as a start position).
So your point really is that you would prefer markers to be the opposite way. But they came from Aston and that's just the way they were made. They face "forward". So the "front" of them has the writing on it. That's how Eric first made them in the modeller and I really think that is the normal way that anyone would build an object. What you would call the front of a car and what you would call the front of a sign...
Only problem is you like the front of signs to oppose the front of a car. So the signs that you see on a road are all pointing backwards.
Anyway, that's just how it is so it will not be changed.
So your point really is that you would prefer markers to be the opposite way. But they came from Aston and that's just the way they were made. They face "forward". So the "front" of them has the writing on it. That's how Eric first made them in the modeller and I really think that is the normal way that anyone would build an object. What you would call the front of a car and what you would call the front of a sign...
Only problem is you like the front of signs to oppose the front of a car. So the signs that you see on a road are all pointing backwards.
Anyway, that's just how it is so it will not be changed.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG